Free Aviation Guy Newsletter Want to receive the latest on aviation delivered to you? Get all the latest and greatest aviation insights for FREE! Join your fellow Av Geeks who subscribe to Aviation Guy for FREE!!

Why the C-130 is Better than the P-3

A C-130 preparing to do what it does best, mountain flying.

After a lovely discussion a few days ago with some new friends from Australia I figured it was worth some time to definitively list some of the reasons why the C-130 is better than the P-3.  I say some of the reasons because I simply don’t have time to list them all, nor is it necessary.  The comparison is worthwhile as the aircraft share some similarities, which we will discuss later.

The first reason is that it is simply better alphabetically.  C comes well before P because it is for better planes.  On a similar note C also comes before F, but that is a different discussion.  On top of the alphabetical argument, it is also better numerically since 130 is clearly bigger, and therefore better, than 3.

An air-to-air left side view of an Australian P-3C Orion aircraft flying over Thailand.
By Camera Operator: Butterworth – US Defense Visual Information Center

Continuing with the theme of numbers, there have been more than 2500 C-130’s built while there were only 757 (tell me this was not an accident) P-3’s built.  Obviously if you build more of something it must be better.

The C-130 has been built in 40 different variants because it is just that versatile.  The P-3…only 5.  So by an order of magnitude of 8, the C-130 is better.  (not to mention that 130 is 43.3 times bigger than 3)  There is also not much cooler than the flying tank that is the AC-130.  It’s like something you would build in a video game or discuss while you are drunk with friends.  Let’s take a Howitzer and stick it out the side of a plane.  And, just to be safe let’s also put a 40mm cannon and a gatling gun on there too.  At least the P-3 has an antenna sticking out the back.

The C-130 has been around longer.  While both aircraft are in the prestigious 50 years of continuous flying club, the C-130 was first flown five whole years before the P-3.  As I am demonstrating to the guys in my UPT class, when it comes to flying, older is better.

The P-3 needs more than 4,000 feet for its takeoff run.  I have seen a C-130 take off in around 1500 feet. Better.

The service ceiling of the P-3 is 28,300 feet, but I have personally been over 30,000 feet in a C-130.  Better.

When Batman needed to extract a bad guy out of Hong Kong, what plane did he use?  A C-130.

When Paul Walker and Vin Diesel needed to airdrop cars to stop bad guys, did they use a P-3?  Nope, they used a C-130.

One is named after the son of a god, the other after a guy who is a constellation that people can only ever find the belt of.

Shoot, despite being a maritime platform, a P-3 has never landed on an aircraft carrier…but a C-130 has.

Next let’s talk about looks.  Despite some fat shaming that may have taken place in this discussion with my misguided Aussie friends (the C-130 has a max takeoff weight 20,000 lbs higher than the P-3, again bigger is better), the C-130 is simply the sexier plane.  If it wasn’t, would the Blue Angels, who are the face of the Navy, have picked it to be part of their demo team?  Just saying.

The 1891 patent from Seth Wheeler shows that the toilet paper should go up and over. Google Patent Database

I will end with the point that started our discussion on Twitter, which really just tops the cake.  The C-130 and the P-3 share the same engines, which is a fun similarity.  The difference is that one of the planes has them on right side up (C-130), and the other has them on upside down (P-3).  This is evidenced again by which one was built first as to which way is correct.  Much the way that the patent for toilet paper shows the correct way for a roll to be inserted is with paper to roll over the top, the C-130 shows the proper way to hang T-56 engines.

Come to think of it though, they are from down under, so maybe they are just looking at it upside down?

In all seriousness, they are both excellent planes that have served many countries well for many years.  So well in fact, that only one of them is being replaced by what is essentially a 737.

By Camera Operator: Butterworth – US Defense Visual Information Center

 

July 21, 2020 I Written By

I'm Dave and I am a proud Avgeek. It goes way beyond liking airplanes. It is a passion that cannot be subdued.

We Lost a Great Friend Yesterday

Flying is an inherently dangerous business.

I have often heard, and experienced, that the longer you are in this business the more likely you will lose a friend.  For what was unfortunately not the first time, I lost a friend in an airplane accident yesterday.

Ian McBeth was one of the pilots on the Coulson Aviation plane that crashed while fighting fires in Australia.  Ian was a consummate professional, and one of the best pilots I ever had the opportunity to fly with.  He was an expert in his craft and one of the most respected pilots in the firefighting community.

On top of working for Coulson, Ian was also a member of the Montana National Guard and before that the Wyoming National Guard, also flying the C-130 as an expert on the MAFFS mission.

I got to know him because over the last year or so he regularly flew with us in Reno as we continue to get spun up as the newest of the MAFFS units.  He was an exceptional instructor in what is arguably the most dangerous mission the C-130 executes.  He was always calm and collected as our pilots learned this dynamic and essential mission.

I will always remember his cool demeanor, and his ability to mould our pilots into even better pilots.  Ian was always a pleasure to be around and he will be truly missed.

This whole thing frankly sucks, and is a good reminder to all of us aviators that what we do is dangerous and unforgiving.  We will all learn from this tragedy and improve the safety of this mission in any way we can.

As I talked with my fellow classmates here at UPT Icame to realize one of the amazing characteristics of pilots, and more specifically Air Force pilots.  We have an incredible amount of resiliency.  We have terrible tragedies like this, we take the time to mourn our friends, and we will certainly never forget them, but then we get back to work and take care of business.

That is what our friends would want.

Ian was doing what he loved, and that is a great example for all of us to commit ourselves to something as important as fighting fires, and more importantly to commit fully to whatever it is we do.

To all of our friends that have gone before…a toast.

You will be missed Ian.

January 25, 2020 I Written By

I'm Dave and I am a proud Avgeek. It goes way beyond liking airplanes. It is a passion that cannot be subdued.

What a Year 2019 Was

I know it is completely cliche to write a post about the last year on New Year’s Day, but I am nothing if not socially trendy.  So here we go.

As I look back on the year, my first thought is simply that I don’t know where the year has gone.  I started the year deployed to Kuwait where I was able to fly to Iraq, Iran, Oman, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Afghanistan, and Qatar.  As much as being away from family while you are deployed sucks, being able to just fly and not worry about all of the other stuff at work is awesome.

On the way home from the deployment we got to spend some time in Greece, Northern Ireland, The Azores, Canada, and Minnesota before making it back to Reno.  It was so fun to decompress on the way home and make some good memories.  I also had one of the scarier events in my career when one of the panes of our windshield shattered halfway across the Atlantic.  In hindsight it was not as big of a deal as it seemed at the time, but it was still not very comfortable.

A few days after getting home I was lucky enough to go with my family to Hawaii for the first time.  It was nice to just relax on an airliner for a change after the deployment.  It was also some much needed family time after four months away.

A few days after that trip I was back on a plane heading East to Ohio for my flight physical as I continued the process to go to Air Force Pilot Training.  Even though I am pretty healthy it was quite the nerve wracking trip as a bunch of doctors and nurses would determine my Air Force future.  Fortunately, everything went off without a hitch and my package was submitted a few weeks later.

Before I knew it, I was back to work and trying to get caught up after five months or so away from the office.  It didn’t take long for me to miss the flying from the deployment, but it was still good to be home and settled again.

Spring training for the MAFFS season ended up being a weather mess in Colorado Springs with some unseasonably late snow that delayed a lot of the training.  We ended up getting almost all of it done, but as luck would have it, we didn’t get called out at all this year to fight fires.  As much as we love doing our jobs, it was a needed break for everyone after the crazy fires we had last year.  Here’s hoping our Aussie brothers and sisters get some relief from their fires soon.

I had a fun little trip with a great group of guys down to Mississippi to drop off a plane for some upgrades.  There was nothing special about the trip, but sometimes it is fun to just have a simple trip with great people that equals a great time.  It would also prove to be my last trip before leaving Reno.

In late July I gave a checkride, not realizing that it would be my last flight on the C-130 as a navigator, and possibly my last flight ever on a C-130H.  Just a week or two later I got word that I had gotten a fallout slot at UPT and within a week was headed to Del Rio, Texas, and Laughlin AFB.  It was a whirlwind of events that included packing everything we owned, and driving halfway across the country.

It bears mentioning at this point how lucky I am to have the family I do.  My wife has come with me all over the world pursuing my dreams.  She has done it all with minimal complaint and always with the utmost support.  My kids are also amazing troopers as they have had to change schools, make new friends, find new dance studios, and they have done it all with a deep love for me that I can never fully repay.

Pilot training started off as rapidly as advertised, but due to some unique circumstances I ended up with almost three weeks off about a month in.  Things started to pick back up through my simulator checkride before I once again had a long break in training.  During that time my class and I have stayed busy studying and practicing in the simulators, but all of us are anxious to get out and actually fly the T-6.

Barring any crazy unforeseen circumstances, which can happen when it comes to flying, we should all be flying next week, and may be wishing for a little more of a break.  I am super excited to get up in the air again, and continue on this long journey of becoming a better aviator.

It has been more than six months since I was last able to fly, and it pains me a little every time I think about that.  I often think about what my passions are, and what the most important things in life are to me, which is pretty much standard for everyone at this time of the year.

I count myself incredibly blessed that I actually get to do what I love most for a living.  I get to spend my time in the air doing something that is completely unnatural for a human being to do.  I can’t think of anything more liberating and calming than flying is for me.  It is where I feel most at home, and it is where I feel most like myself, whatever that may be.

As I look forward into the new year many of my ambitions will be dictated by the Air Force and the rigorous training schedule of UPT, assuming there are no more delays.  Sometimes I get disappointed when I think about that because I would love to go to Airventure, or the Reno Air Races, or any number of other awesome aviation events around the country, but they will all have to wait for future years.

So now I am trying to focus on the other awesome things that I will get to do.  I get to spend the next three months or so flying the T-6 Texan II.  I don’t particularly enjoy pulling G’s, but it will still be so much fun spending pretty much every day at the controls of an extremely powerful and nimble aircraft.  It is an opportunity that not everyone gets to have, and I count myself blessed that I get to experience it.

Then I will move onto the T-1 for about 5-6 months after that.  While it may not seem exciting to spend so much time learning to fly what is really just a business jet, it is more time I get to spend in the air, honing my craft and learning the skills I need to safely operate in the air for years to come.  It is also a good reminder to me of all the different skills that there are to learn in aviation.  You should never pass up an opportunity to broaden your skill set because you never know when those skills may come in handy.

A year from now I should be back in Little Rock, Arkansas for my C-130 specific training.  I can’t wait to get back to my beloved Herk, but it remains to be seen which version of the old girl I will be training on.

The National Guard is set to announce this month which two units will be converting from the C-130H to the C-130J.  That conversion will then take place over the next few years.  It is hard to tell what will happen when it comes to the politics of such a decision.  There are about 10 different units that could make the change, and Reno is one that makes a lot of sense from a practical perspective.

Ultimately, I have no say in the decision and will simply play the hand I am dealt.  If I did have a say, I would hope we stay with the H.  Having flown on both, I really enjoy the crew dynamic of the H better.  With all of the new modifications they are making to our old planes, they get much closer to the performance of the J, and once they do all of the avionics upgrades, they will be closer in that arena as well.  At the end of the day it is probably mostly a nostalgia thing for me.  It is the plane I grew up on, and I hold on to tradition as long as I possibly can.  They are both incredibly capable planes and I will be happy to fly either one.

It’s funny as I think about my love for the Herk now compared to how I felt when I first joined the Air Force.  I really thought I wanted to be on the F-15E and go fast and pull G’s, but a bomber would be an adequate place to land if I couldn’t get on a fighter.  I clearly remember thinking that as long as I didn’t end up on the C-130 I would be happy with whatever I got.

Now I can’t imagine being anywhere else.

It has been a fun year of flying, and even fun with some of the time I haven’t been flying, but this year will be even more fun as I finally fulfill my dream of becoming an Air Force pilot.  I am having to delay some of the other things I would like to pursue in aviation, but that is part of the deal.  You can’t do everything in aviation all of the time, because it just isn’t possible.  You have to enjoy where you are at right now, and then keep working to experience as many of those other things as possible.

So wherever you are in your life as an aviator, because it is a life and not just a job or a hobby, keep enjoying the moments you have, and always look for new ways to spread that joy.  It is a great aviation family we are all a part of, and I look forward to getting to know more of you, and enjoy watching your adventures in the coming year.

January 1, 2020 I Written By

I'm Dave and I am a proud Avgeek. It goes way beyond liking airplanes. It is a passion that cannot be subdued.

Moving on in My Love Affair with the C-130H

Me preparing to drop supplies as part of Operation Christmas Drop.

Today is a very bittersweet day for me. After 7 years in the active duty Air Force, today is my last day on active duty.

It has been an incredible ride of ups and downs all over the world.  I have met many of the greatest people I have ever known in this time.  I have been mentored and taught by great minds who had so much to share and were willing to take me under their wing to help me become a better officer, aviator, and man.

I have witnessed the selfless sacrifices of countless other military members, and often the more difficult sacrifices of those we leave behind who keep life going while we go to serve others.  It is an awe-inspiring site to take part in actions that serve thousands of people all over the world who are in dire need of help.

The C-130 is a military plane, but the greatest work that it takes part in is the humanitarian missions it performs.  There is no other plane that can get into the places we can and provide the services we do.  It is a strange feeling to watch natural disasters play out in anticipation of the opportunity to go and help those people.

While it breaks my heart to see the last C-130Hs leave active duty this week, I am equally rejuvenated by the fact that I am starting the next chapter of my career as a member of the 192nd Airlift Squadron in the Nevada Air National Guard.  I do find it quite poetic that on the same day that the last C-130H will leave active duty I will also separate from active duty and move to the National Guard.

Swearing in as a member of the Nevada Air National Guard.

As I drove onto the base for the first time today it was a little surreal to me to think that I will stay here in Reno for the remainder of my career.  No matter how weird it may have felt, when I looked out on the ramp and saw their beautiful C-130Hs I felt right at home.

The awesome thing about the two planes I could see from the parking lot is that they are the MAFFS (Modular Airborne Fire Fighting System) birds that are utilized for fighting forest fires all over the country.  This struck me even more with the fires that ripped through California this past week, not too far from where we live.  They are easy to distinguish if you ever see these planes because of the huge orange numbers on the sides of them.

I am incredibly excited to take part in this new mission set to help fight fires, and hopefully prevent as much damage as possible.  I hate to sound like a broken record, but there is something special about being a part of missions that help people in trouble.

Preparing to fly in the Advanced Mountain Airlift Tactics School.

This is not my first time flying in the Reno area as I took part in the Advanced Mountain Airlift Tactics School shortly before I went to Japan.  I actually wrote about it back then if you would like to learn more.  Suffice it to say that it was the most useful flying course I have been through in the C-130 and provided tremendous insights into the intricacies of mountain flying.  Becoming an instructor for that course is just one more thing that I am looking forward to in my new adventure.

One reason I haven’t written much on here for the last year is because I just wasn’t flying much, and the flying we were doing was not really exciting.  While not every flight is meant to be fun and exciting, I am so looking forward to getting back to the flying that made me love the C-130.  Flying in the amazing Sierra Nevadas in some legit mountains is going to provide some great pictures and videos that I look forward to sharing with you in the coming months and years.

Thank you for the support over the years, and please come back to see more about my exciting new adventures.

October 15, 2017 I Written By

I'm Dave and I am a proud Avgeek. It goes way beyond liking airplanes. It is a passion that cannot be subdued.